Tuesday, 26 December 2017

Hucbold and TCol Update

More IGMs have been sent to me in relation to the Hucbold/TCol story posted on the 20th. Hucbold initiated the exchange with the following IGM:

I am informed that you are briefing people that I called you a nazi. 
For the record, I did NOT call TCol Nazis. I did say that they performed two acts of ethnic cleansing. The term 'ethnic cleansing' to me comes from the Yugoslav wars not WWII. It had to do with the breakup of Yugoslavia into its constituent republics and some of them wanting more territory and pushing out indigenous populations and sometimes even killing them. However the main characteristic was removing people of the wrong 'brand' from territory. When TCol set up their land claim, Aesir had one player there, JoeK4, with 2 towns. He had been there, peacefully, for years. He was told to get out or be eliminated. I intervened at Joe's request and tried to persuade Joe to leave but while that was going on sieges landed and Joe was eradicated. Joe quit the game. I think 'ethnic cleansing' is an exact description of that. 
None of that amounts to me calling TCol nazis!
 I reserve the right, if there is an answer, to publish it, circumventing the game rules, if I think I can spin it in my favour. 
If, on the other hand you wish to pursue the offer made in my previous message, which could lead to exactly what you want, without prejudice to the final outcome and in confidence, let me know.

To which Grombrindal of TCol responded with the following:

Hail Hucbolt (Spartacus?), 
We have little else to say to you. If you somehow believe it is better to compare us to the Sebrenica massacre than the concentration camps, all hope of educating you on the sensitivities of these events seems far gone. 
The case of Joe will be remembered as a colossal failure in leadership from your side (promising that a player will move without consulting the actual player), which we nonetheless tried to solve in a diplomatic and humane manner. Joe eventually quit because he felt betrayed by his own, a lesson you may wish to take to heart. 
As for your renewed efforts to push your previous offer, we have already made clear our objection. Our sovereignty is not subject to negotiation. It is willingly and without precondition acknowledged by those who wish friendly relations with the empire (we will spare you a listing of venerable and ancient they are). 
At this point our trust in you is so tainted by your vicious and unfounded accusations, and your obvious disregard for the truth, that we are uncertain if we, even with the best of intentions, could ever consider you a friend. Your threat to publish our correspondence to spin it to your favor is downright laughable. By now you have more than proven that you could not spin a merry-go-round if your life depended on it. 
On behalf of her imperial majesty Zenorra and the united people of Mal Motsha, 

I asked Hucbold for a comment on the exchange of IGMs and he sent back a list of complaints about the TCol's handling of the situation

1. People do not refer to the Srebrenica ethnic cleansing, they refer to the Srebrenica massacre. 
2. I defined my understanding of the term ethnic cleansing - the forceful removal of people of the wrong 'brand' from a territoty, JoeK was forcibly removed from MM because he was Aesir. I applied the term correctly. 
3. In the case of Joe, he asked me to intervene on his behalf. I offered TCol to move him, and got a semi polite answer from TCol declining my offer of an NAP. I sent Joe copies of the IGMs. Without further notice TCol sieged and razed Joe. Joe sent me and others equipment and resources, told me that TCol had been completely unreasonable, was offered no choice but 'go or be razed, without reference to his lengthy friendly presence there ' and no time to achieve an exit. He chose to leave his towns where they were and quit the game. Tcol subsequently sent me an email compliaining that Joe was attacking them and a short reply when I replied incredulously. 
4. The three messages mentioned above are the only interactions I had before the ones that TCol seem to feel at liberty to publish. There is no underlying hostility between us that I am aware of. 
5. When I offered TCol an NAP (in the first communication) they responded that they were not interested in diplomatic relations with anyone. They subsequently entered not just NAPs but full confeds with alliances in the SINDICATE. 
6. My approaches to them were genuine. I was trying to give them what they said they desired and to keep them out of the war. To be clear here, the risk is that a Ta2in town in MM might launch an attack against one of our confeds. Since the empress asserts her primacy in the use of military force in MM, that could be interpreted as her allies declaring war on her behalf. Observers will note that this was one of the issues I sought clarification on. 
7. In Illy as in RL, everything can be negotiated. Seeking clarifications about the intentions of a new entity before endorsing it is not unusual. Indeed in RL, countries frequently raise issues about human rights or the military intentions of other states. It is the normal practice of diplomacy. 
8. The concerns raised could hardly have been described as unreasonable. 
9. The deliberate insults in the replies are of concern - mispelling my name - the Spartacus taunt - criticising my leadership - and so on. This is not diplomatic language - nor is the fact that communications sent leader to leader are being answered by someone else. 
Hucbold (with no t)

As a comment on points 1, 2 and 9, I'd like to point out that the Srebrenica massacre was part of the Bosnian Genocide to which Hucbold had earlier referred. I'm not going to go into much detail into the genocide because there are things I'd much prefer to do with my time than research things like this. However, this is a quote from the wikipedia article on the Bosnian Genocide: ' The ethnic cleansing campaign included unlawful confinement, murder, rape, sexual assault, torture, beating, robbery...'. Given all this, I'd consider Grombrindal calling him Spartacus and spelling his name wrong to be a somewhat mild response.
I'd also consider the 'Empire Ambassador' responding to IGMs from foreign powers on the behalf of the Empress to be a somewhat standard state of affairs.

-Eowan The Short.

Friday, 22 December 2017

Bellicose Noobringed, Continues to be Attacked.

Bellicose and his alt Dennis have both been the targets of a strong and successful offensive by Unbow in Western Elgea. According to an Unbow player, more than 20 cities were captured, razed or forced to exodus out of the region. Of these, around 18 are believed to have belonged to Bellicose and Dennis.

As a result of the operation, Bellicose was totally noob ringed and Dennis was reduced to a single town though, due to the fact that it was in exodus when his other city was razed, Dennis has had a starter town spawn in Mal Moshta. As this town falls within TCol's landclaim, it is under their protection currently.

However, it didn't stop there. Since being noob ringed, Bellicose has continued to be attacked by a number of Resistance players; Morgweneth, FIGJAM, Thanes Aristophanes and Lagavulin. In GC, it has been claimed that these attacks are to prevent Bellicose from becoming a threat again but one must wonder at what point it becomes an attempt to force players out of the game. 

When I asked Thanes Aritophanes about the attacks on Bellicose, he responded by saying that 'Storm do not comment on ongoing operations.'. How attacks on defenceless players can be considered operations is not clear to me. 

I also got a response to the questions I asked by a player from Unbow;
1) Why was it decided to noobring Bellicose? 
Bellicose/dennis, as also Bradik, Shagrat and Anas did, did occupy a few cities in the desert of Lan Laross/Western Realms and those cities can be seen as military very important. We did however at first left them there living in peace. But then they tried to capture one village of our alliance. We didn't accept that and attacked their siege and later on attacked the city of Bellicose from where the attack took place. As a reply on that SIN and TA2IN declared war on us. In reply on the war declaration we attacked all cities in our area of alliances related to these two aliances. All in all more then 20 cities were captured, razed or exodused.

2) Was Bellicose offered a surrender deal at any point? 
There was no surrender deal offered, while Bellicose and Dennis both had the opportunity to flee to a safe haven in BL, which they didn't take. They exodused one or two villages to a nearby forest. Two weeks after we had removed all cities from the desert we started to remove all remaining villages in our area. When you are at war and still want a surrender deal you do have to ask for it and the terms must be agreed on by the leaderships of the alliances involved.

3) Why is Bellicose continuing to be attacked despite the fact he has been noobringed? 
I disagree with the people who attack beginning villages in the noobring. I don't care if they are really new or forced to begin again as a victim of the war. I see it as committing a warcrime when you attack starting villages. I do like fighting a war, but on justified rules. It is a matter of respect for your opponent as they have had respect for us in the past.

4) Is there anything else you'd like to add?
I'm part of the old Unbowed and we do respect our opponents, but disagree with their ideas/statements. As they we are a warmachine. We have our pride and we stand for a free and peacefull Illyriad with no bounderies and some agreements to live in Elgea and the Broken Lands. We will fight for this freedom.

The fact that a member of the Resistance is willing to call out other members as war criminals shows that it may just be a minority in the Resistance who feel such actions are appropriate. If this is true, then I urge the Resistance to publicly denounce those who feel it is fine to attack players after they have been noob ringed. It is extremely difficult even today to get players to talk about the last server war due to the lack of proportional force used in it. Let's not repeat the mistakes of the past.

-Eowan The Short

Wednesday, 20 December 2017

GH Landclaim; Fact or Fiction?

On Monday the 18th of December, KLiPstA entered in GC and made a comment about how she wished the siege that had been placed on her town of Bikini Bottom would be hit by an NPC. KliPstA is a 3 town player and at the time was unaffiliated with an alliance.
A search of the herald siege page showed the siege belonged to Sabbathius (aka Bruce Lee), leader of GH.
When I IGMed Sabbathius and asked him why he was sieging a noob, he said the following:
'Taomist is ours, the city will be razed if not relocated in 2 weeks. I have recalled my siege.'

To me, it seems that saying 'Taomist is ours' would be a good indicator that he has a landclaim on the region. However, I could find no mention of this landclaim on either the forums or GH's profile or Sabbathius' profile. As a result of this, I decided to announce GH's landclaim for them in the forums.

For some reason, Sabbathius then appeared on the forum thread saying:
'We do not have a land claim, Eeowan is just a troll '

This does raise serious questions as to why the noob's town was being razed if there is no landclaim; its not within 10 squares of anyone's towns and the noob had no prior contact with Sabbathius. BillCipher probably summarised the conflict best on the forum post:
'She was the right to stay where she is because there is no land claim as put on the GH alliance profile. with that anyone cant tell someone where they can and can't have their towns especially since there is NOT  a land claim. She was sieged because she was "In GH land claim" But to reinforce it there is not a land claim. The IGM was because of the land claim. A warning then an attack was sent following the IGM.

It comes down to the fact that Golden Horde AND Sabbathius attacked a newb with NO REASON'

Neither Sabbathius or any other member of GH has confirmed whether the rejection of  a landclaim means that KLiPstA can stay where she is.

Since the conflict began, KLiPstA has moved into pTory.

-Eowan The Short

Hucbold Trying to Drag TCol into Server War?

Her Imperial Majesty, Zenorra of TCol has today forwarded me a message from His Most Serene Grace, Hucbold, Duque de Bragança, Víðarr of the Æsir relating to the recognition of the TCol's establishment of a Kingdom of Mal Moshta
The message goes as follows:
Greetings Your Imperial Majesty

The last time we spoke, I indicated that it might be possible for The Æsir to recognise your claims on Mal Motsha. However, you cut the discussion short with an ugly and unnecessary act of ethnic cleansing, wiping out our two peaceful towns in the territory. As this was our only communication, I have been somewhat surprised at the negative and aggressively hostile attitude taken by you and your ambassador towards me in GC. However, I am a forgiving lord and sufficient time has, I feel, passed for us to tentatively explore the possibility of recognition of Mal Motsha as a Kingdom in its own right.

Obviously, at this stage I have very many venerable and ancient allies and friends who are also interested in this situation. For some time I have been nudging them towards the benefits to global peace and prosperity which nations states can bring. I have to be honest and say that not all agree. In truth, some are vehemently opposed to the idea. I do feel, however, that I can represent a significant number of alliances and that given the right conditions it may be possible for us to reach an agreement that would involve the recognition of Mal Motsha by peacable and respected Elgean alliances.

Here are the issues of concern:

1. The 'newb ring' now touches Mal Motsha. We want new players to be able to choose their own direction and allegiance. We would therefore expect that towns spawning in Mal Motsha would be allowed to stay unless and until they join other alliances and that they would be allowed to settle another town within a reasonable distance of the first.

2. We believe that players not alligned with an alliance should be able to settle anywhere there is space, subject only to clearly established local custom and practice. That would include a limitation on army size and a ban on scouts to enable local authorities to verify army size.

3. We believe the territory of Mal Motsha is the limit of the land claim. Mal Motshans are free to live outside Mal Motsha but are subject to local laws and customs.

4. In furtherance of point 3, we believe TCol should rename itself Mal Motsha.

5. We note the declaration by the Empress that she is responsible for all military action in Mal Motsha and accepts responsibility for all military actions by Mal Motshans. We trust that this means that any military action emanating from a confederated town in Mal Motsha is a military action by Mal Motsha.

6. If this agreement were to happen, we would expect Mal Motsha to enter NAPs with all participating alliances.

If Your Imperial Majesty believes that it might be possible to address these concerms to our mutual satisfaction and is prepared to indicate that to us, then I will more strongly persuade my colleagues as to the wisdom of this action and would indicate to you the alliances that might be interested in pursuing this course.

Given in friendship, this 18th Day of December, by His Most Serene Grace, Hucbold, Duque de Bragança, Víðarr of the Æsir

TL;DR version:
Hucbold begins talking about Aesir recognising TCol's claims on Mal Moshta, accuses them of ethnic cleansing and then forgives them for it because he's such a nice guy
He says a lot of his friends don't like the claims but he might be able to pacify them
Hucbold then states that noobs and unaligned players should be allowed in Mal Moshta
Next he confirms that TCol will be allowed outside Mal Moshta and asks that they rename themselves Mal Moshta
Hucbold then asks for NAPs and a confirmation that Zenorra is responsible for the actions of TCol and its confeds.
In return for all he asks, he says he will try to convince his friends that the TCol claims on Mal Moshta are OK.

Attached with the message was TCol's response:
Hail Hucbold (Spartacus?),

Let me begin by complimenting you for the effort of writing such an embellished mail. Tcol is always happy to hear from alliances that recognize its rights as a sovereign state. However, the remainder of your writing seems to build on a flawed foundation; that is to say, the belief that recognition of our sovereignty is subject to negotiations. 

Given the abrasive nature of your IGM, which seems to belie a great deal of underlying grievances, we sincerely considered replying with the utmost brevity. However, we will give you the courtesy of replying to some of your points, if only to correct any false assumptions you may hold.

Everything that happens in MM is dictated by TCol. Our sovereign borders are absolute. No neutral entities are suffered on our soil. Your sincere concern for newer players is noted, and we assure you that they are treated fairly. We will not, however, suffer outside meddling in our business with them. We do not judge the rest of your Issues of Concern worthy of a serious response. 

Due to the tone of your writing, a new grievance has arisen which should be addressed. Tcol does not engage in acts of ethnic cleansing, and we will require an apology for any suggestion to the contrary. Furthermore, we would like to inform you that we do not require your forgiveness for an event that stemmed from your own lack of leadership and communication. 

We hope this answers any questions you and your...erm...very many venerable and ancient allies and friends might have had. We realize you will probably decide to rescind your offer of friendship, and feel additionally grateful for our own allies, who have seen fit to recognize our sovereignty without precondition. 

Grombrindal and Zenorra

In IGMs with me, Zenorra stated that she believed this was an attempt by Hucbold to 'drag us [TCol] into the war'. This could be due to Hucbold's statement that he has 'very many venerable and ancient allies and friends who are also interested in this situation.' 

Given that this is likely the same set of allies and friends who are fighting the current server war, one must wonder at the wisdom of Hucbold risking a new enemy given that the war is far from conclusion, especially given that TCol are on Aesir's doorstep.

When asked to comment on this IGM, he first tried to suppress his publishing and then stated that there had been 'alterations to the text'. However, he refused to state what these alterations were.

It should be noted for those who attempt to suppress the publishing of IGMs on this site, in the past I have had problems with the DEVS in relation to the publishing of information related to the DEVS punishments of players. I was informed during these problems that as long as there was no link to articles breaching the rules in the forums, it was permitted by former Community Manager, GM Rikoo. 

-Eowan The Short

Friday, 10 November 2017

Stukahh's Exit

Gamers in MMORTSs differ in their effectiveness, and perhaps some might view there as being two kinds of highly effective player out there: Jedi, who try to make the game the best experience for everyone, and Sith, who value only the enjoyment of themselves and their boon companions. Good vs evil, in other words. If we look for a Sith lord in Illyriad, Stukahh is a good candidate. In a previous incarnation he founded NC, which changed the balance of power in Elgea and played an important role in the Consone war, shaking up what was considered acceptable play in the game. With two other players, he went on, as Stukahh, to found SIN, the alliance that more than any other has shaped the relatively bloodthirsty direction of the Broken Lands. Now Stukahh seems to have announced his retirement: A final message to the commoners of GC. My tenure in Illyriad is over. Rather than make a formal statement this link basically summarizes my thoughts on the community here with the exception of a few. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHngTC6KRnY
The uptake is that Stukahh doesn't seem to think the game has any Jedi worth speaking of, only liars and cowards who bleat on about Illyriad's wonderful community and how it should be respected. Did NC and the SINdicate improve the game? They certainly were not afraid to have fun at the expense of the way that others enjoyed their game (Stukahh once said something along the lines of that Loki's motto should be having fun at your expense). But they chose fights as fair as they could and they raised the level of the military side of the game. I think they have made the game more what it should be. Has Stukahh really gone for good? Will he keep in touch with players like Fiona? I guess that one way or another an age of the game is coming to an end, with the departure of a great, dark player. I hope for the game's sake the gaping hole he leaves can be filled well. Alti

Wednesday, 16 August 2017

What truly happened between IKnights and Kimmyeo

     It has come to this reporter's attention that there has been a load of drama in Global Chat lately, concerning IKnights and Kimmyeo mainly. There was a post in the Illyriad Times about this, but reports have gone around that a lot of the story was edited out. If this was intentional or accidental, is still unknown. As someone who only wants the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to be known, I went to further investigate. I will continue to keep myself anonymous so that I may continue my work without any sort of hassle.
     First things first, I decided to look around and see what Kimmyeo's claims were. I claimed I was just a curious player who wanted to know the full story. She claimed that IKnights went against the coalition and paid 1 billion gold to Hobblez as surrender payment without any given agreement, then demanded that RoFC pay him back and ganged up with Princess Botchface and attacked RoFC. She also claimed that Hobblez was not going to attack RoFC at all since he was paid and was leaving them alone. When I asked for proof of this, she was unable to give me anything but her word. It was the same with the rest of Global Chat.

     I proceeded to ask IKnights about the events. What I learned was shocking. Here is my Private Chat with him.

[23:31]<S.S.C.L.> Hello
[23:31]<IKnights> Greetings!
[23:32]<S.S.C.L.> Pardon me for being curious, but what happened with you and Kimmyeo?
[23:32]<IKnights> It's a load of drama that I do not want to have, but to be basic, I'm owed a billion gold and she's trying to cheat me out of it.
[23:33]<S.S.C.L.> Well, I would like to know the entire story, from the beginning, if you don't mind.
[23:33]<S.S.C.L.> I just want to know what truly happened and not just bits and pieces.
[23:34]<IKnights> Alright, but it's a very long story.
[23:34]<S.S.C.L.> I have time.
[23:34]<IKnights> Apparently, a while ago, 4 members of RoFC attacked Maelstrom, the alt of Hobblez, when it was new.
[23:35]<S.S.C.L.> Who were these members?
[23:35]<IKnights> AdamPrime, Neptune, Wulfhere Athol, and XueLang.
[23:36]<S.S.C.L.> Did they know it was Hobblez's alt?
[23:37]<IKnights> I do not know. I think they did not.
[23:37]<S.S.C.L.> Why did they attack it?
[23:39]<IKnights> Apparently RoFC was in a small war with loki from what I've gathered
[23:39]<S.S.C.L.> Why wasn't it dealt with during the war?
[23:39]<IKnights> Apparently Hobblez was too busy and held it off.
[23:41]<IKnights> But as soon as he was availible, he started attacking them.
[23:41]<S.S.C.L.> Them as in the members who attacked? Or as in RoFC?
[23:42]<IKnights> Just those 4, mainly Neptune. Apparently Hobblez tested him and asked him to see if he would be honest.
[23:42]<IKnights> Neptune claims he forgot though.
[23:42]<IKnights> Hobblez also said that whoever helps and of those 4 will be attacked as well.
[23:43]<S.S.C.L.> Did anyone help them?
[23:44]<IKnights> Military wise, not that I know of.
[23:45]<S.S.C.L.> Do you have any proof of this?
[23:46]<IKnights> Yes, I have an IGM of a conversation between Maelstrom and Neptune
[23:47]<IKnights> I'll forward it to you.

[23:48]<S.S.C.L.> Hmm, looks legit to me.
[23:48]<IKnights> I don't know if Neptune lied or was honest, either way, Hobblez begun the attacks.
[23:49]<IKnights> Hobblez did offer Neptune a surrender payment.
[23:50]<IKnights> I'll forward you an IGM of proof that Neptune blighted him

[23:51]<IKnights> I also have proof of a seige on Maelstrom by AdamPrime and Wulfhere Athol.

[23:52]<S.S.C.L.> So when you got these, what did you do next?
[23:52]<IKnights> By that point, I agreed with Hobblez 100%.
[23:53]<IKnights> I mean come on, he got attacked, wanted revenge. I would have done the same thing.
[23:53]<IKnights> So I told Hobblez that.
[23:53]<IKnights> Forwarding it to you.

[23:54]<S.S.C.L.> What happened next?
[23:54]<IKnights> Eowan The Short called an urgent trial.
[23:54]<S.S.C.L.> Don't trials take time?
[23:55]<IKnights> We had already been discussing it for a few days, apparently Neptune was offered surrender payment way before then.
[23:55]<IKnights> It was like only 350m gold.
[23:55]<IKnights> By then, the price had climbed to 1 billion gold.
[23:56]<IKnights> We needed decisions now.
[23:56]<IKnights> I'll forward you the IGM he mass mailed to BOTH alliances

[23:58]<S.S.C.L.> What I gathered from GC is that there was no trial at all.
[23:58]<IKnights> Kimmyeo lied.
[23:58]<IKnights> There was.
[23:58]<S.S.C.L.> It was in Discord?
[23:59]<IKnights> Yes, we have a Discord server for a "Coalition Chat".
[00:00]<S.S.C.L.> What happened there?
[00:01]<IKnights> We held a trial.
[00:02]<IKnights> AdamPrime and XueLang didn't show up.
[00:02]<IKnights> Neptune came, but didn't speak.
[00:02]<IKnights> Wulfhere spoke though.
[00:03]<S.S.C.L.> Who else was there?
[00:04]<IKnights> Eowan, Kimmyeo, PH!L, Nicktheh, Phoenixfire, and I.
[00:05]<IKnights> We didn't have time to wait for every single member. This was a matter of the whole coalition, not just RoFC, so we needed to act fast.
[00:06]<S.S.C.L.> Understandable.
[00:07]<IKnights> Basically, we debated what to do. During the trial I offered to pay the 1 billion gold and have RoFC pay me back over time.
[00:07]<S.S.C.L.> How much time?
[00:07]<IKnights> 100m total a month.
[00:07]<S.S.C.L.> What did everyone else say?
[00:08]<IKnights> Well, all of the offending players were not given a choice in the vote. Otherwise that would be corrupt.
[00:08]<S.S.C.L.> Agreed.
[00:09]<IKnights> PH!L was cautious, and Kimmyeo said it probably wouldn't be wise. But after some debate, it was agreed by all.
[00:09]<S.S.C.L.> Do you have proof of this?
[00:10]<IKnights> I'll send you screenshots if you like.
[00:10]<S.S.C.L.> I would like to see them.
[00:11]<IKnights> Sent
[00:11]<S.S.C.L.> Well, it's possible you could have doctored it.
[00:12]<IKnights> I did not edit anything. I actually had my Illy-Lawyers look through the chat. And I have witnesses.
[00:12]<S.S.C.L.> You have Illy-Lawyers?
[00:13]<IKnights> Yes. As silly as it sounds, I take everything seriously.
[00:14]<S.S.C.L.> lol
[00:15]<S.S.C.L.> Well, may I see the chat?
[00:16]<IKnights> I'll mail you a link.

Turns out, IKnights was telling the truth. There were even a few Illy-Lawyers there.
[00:17]<S.S.C.L.> Whoa, there's a lot here.
[00:18]<IKnights> Yeah
[00:21]<S.S.C.L.> I don't see Eowan there.
[00:23]<IKnights> Well, the next day, Eowan sold Silversteel in GC and that led to a whole lot of crazy. I came back from a business trip to find all of that going on.
[00:23]<IKnights> I had him kicked from EVERYTHING
[00:23]<IKnights> When I banned him from the server, it also deleted everything he said.
[00:24]<IKnights> But to be basic, he agreed with me.
[00:24]<S.S.C.L.> Do you have proof of that?
[00:25]<IKnights> Actually, yes.
[00:25]<S.S.C.L.> Really?
[00:25]<IKnights> https://illyriadtimes.wordpress.com/2017/08/14/kimmyeo-puts-1200-prestige-bounty-on-iknights-accuses-him-of-scamming-rofc/
[00:25]<IKnights> At the bottom of that, Eowan speaks in the comments.
[00:26]<IKnights> Yes, he called me ITraitor, but even he agrees with me.
[00:26]<S.S.C.L.> Noticed that lol
[00:27]<S.S.C.L.> Ok, then that seems ok.
[00:29]<S.S.C.L.> Well, went through it, everything seems to check out as agreed you would pay and be paid back.
[00:30]<IKnights> I told Hobblez and he agreed. But on the terms they pay back, or he will resume attacking them until they pay me back.
[00:30]<S.S.C.L.> Well that was nice of him.
[00:31]<IKnights> Yeah, I actually told him I would gladly join him.
[00:33]<S.S.C.L.> So, proof of that?
[00:33]<IKnights> Sending that right now.

[00:34]<IKnights> I even told Hobblez of the trial
[00:34]<IKnights> Forwarding proof of that now.

[00:35]<S.S.C.L.> You really kept everything.
[00:36]<IKnights> I NEVER delete anything, ever. I always forward my system IGMs to myself.
[00:36]<IKnights> After that, I told the members what was agreed.
[00:36]<IKnights> Neptune left RoFC
[00:36]<S.S.C.L.> Sounds like that's when you had to attack him?
[00:38]<IKnights> Actually no, I told him he shouldn't leave RoFC and that he should come back and pay over time.
[00:38]<IKnights> It was the next day that the "SS thing" happened.
[00:39]<S.S.C.L.> Yikes.
[00:39]<IKnights> Yeah, there actually was one or two good defenses. But there was a lot of devastating attacks on us as well.
[00:40]<IKnights> But that's another story.
[00:41]<S.S.C.L.> So, what happened next?
[00:43]<IKnights> Well, XueLang IGMed me about the surrender pay
[00:44]<S.S.C.L.> Let me guess, you have that as well?
[00:44]<IKnights> Yep  

[00:45]<S.S.C.L.> Did he ever respond to that?
[00:46]<IKnights> Hasn't said a word since.
[00:46]<IKnights> After that, I informed Neptune again that he should go back to RoFC.
[00:48]<S.S.C.L.> And?
[00:48]<IKnights> He refused and told me to ask for my gold back.
[00:49]<IKnights> Forwarded mail

[00:50]<S.S.C.L.> Hmm
[00:50]<IKnights> Well, I told Hobblez
[00:51]<IKnights> Hobblez held his word and went to help me out

[00:51]<IKnights> Princess Botchface also went to help me. Hobblez did say though that if she helped, then he would back out unless someone helped him.
[00:52]<IKnights> PB mailed Neptune apparently about it.
[00:54]<S.S.C.L.> And?
[00:55]<IKnights> Neptune mailed me. We had a talk
[00:55]<S.S.C.L.> You have that saved?
[00:55]<S.S.C.L.> I see you do, you already sent it XD
[00:55]<IKnights> Yep XD

[00:58]<S.S.C.L.> Wow, you really did want your gold back.
[00:58]<IKnights> Who wouldn't want their 1 billion gold back?
[01:00]<S.S.C.L.> True
[01:00]<IKnights> brb, phone call.
[01:00]<S.S.C.L.> Ok.
[01:06]<IKnights> I'm back.
[01:06]<S.S.C.L.> Welcome back.
[01:09]<S.S.C.L.> Well, what happened next?
[01:10]<IKnights> Well, the next morning, I made my alt, and I wanted Kimmyeo to invite him to RoFC so that I could help them grow, and one day be able to pay me back.
[01:11]<IKnights> But then Kimmyeo said no.
[01:12]<S.S.C.L.> No?
[01:12]<IKnights> I saved the PC, sent it to you.

Here is the Private Chat IKnights states that he and Kimmyeo had.

 [16:33]<IKnights> Hey, are you able to invite players into RoFC?
[16:34]<Kimmyeo> yes
[16:35]<IKnights> Ok, I'll be making IDragon in a few minutes, I'll need an invite sent to him. Thanks.
[16:35]<Kimmyeo> Why would I do that?
[16:36]<IKnights> Because I want an alt in RoFC, is something wrong with that?
[16:36]<Kimmyeo> You and MoV are directly threatening RoFC and you think I will invite you in?
[16:36]<IKnights> What?
[16:36]<IKnights> I'm not threatening RoFC
[16:37]<Kimmyeo> Um, yes you are. PR is attacking a former member right now, and apparently will come after any other ROFC members she chooses until you get money. That is a threat
[16:38]<IKnights> What?
[16:38]<Kimmyeo> Are you seriously going to play dumb right now?
[16:38]<IKnights> I am not attacking any RoFC member
[16:38]<Kimmyeo> I have seen the emails
[16:38]<IKnights> Kimmyeo. I'm being serious. What's going on?
[16:39]<IKnights> I'm not playing dumb. I'm being serious
[16:39]<Kimmyeo> No, you have another person doing it.
[16:39]<Kimmyeo> Princess Botchface
[16:39]<IKnights> I don't have anyone doing it
[16:39]<IKnights> I didn't tell her to attack RoFC
[16:39]<Kimmyeo> She's doing it in you name.
[16:39]<Kimmyeo> your*
[16:39]<IKnights> One second, I need to contact her
[16:39]<Kimmyeo> so, you can stop it, or not
[16:40]<IKnights> Why would I attack RoFC? I paid ONE BILLION gold to protect you!
[16:40]<Kimmyeo> That will never recover from us
[16:41]<Kimmyeo> we didn't ask you to, we didn't agree for you to do it
[16:41]<IKnights> Kimmyeo, you did. I have screenshots to prove it
[16:41]<Kimmyeo> show me
[16:41]<Kimmyeo> I NEVER AGREED
[16:41]<Kimmyeo> NEVER
[16:42]<Kimmyeo> And not edited, doctored shots you like to make
[16:42]<IKnights> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/333584218305200128/346165543964770304/unknown.png
[16:42]<IKnights> Picture, just took it
[16:43]<Kimmyeo> nope,
[16:43]<IKnights> Kimmyeo, what's going on? Why is everyone being like this all of a sudden?
[16:43]<IKnights> I'm sending IDragon to RoFC to HELP you all grow.
[16:43]<Kimmyeo> That was taken out of context, and was talking about a trial, which never happened.
[16:44]<IKnights> It did, people didn't show up
[16:44]<IKnights> I have more
[16:44]<Kimmyeo> Proposition 35 failed. Which means no trial.
[16:44]<Kimmyeo> no one got any message. I didn't
[16:45]<Kimmyeo> No other senators did either. Besides we are in the middle of elections. Very bad timing. You moved too fast.
[16:45]<IKnights> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333584218305200128/346333390796095508/unknown.png
[16:46]<IKnights> I'm not going to RoFC for gold, I'm not going there to be "The Boss", I'm going there to HELP
[16:46]<IKnights> You said it yourself, RoFC is not doing good
[16:47]<Kimmyeo> I didn't say we weren't doing good, we are full of new players
[16:48]<IKnights> I have a screenshot of that too
[16:48]<Kimmyeo> I advised you were moving too fast. Neptune was saying all along he would pay, He would rather be newb ringed.
[16:48]<Kimmyeo> Your screen shots are not helping you.
[16:48]<IKnights> Kimmyeo, why are you doing this to me?
[16:48]<IKnights> What happened?
[16:48]<Kimmyeo> Why are you?
[16:49]<IKnights> I am helping you
[16:49]<Kimmyeo> I don't trust anything you guys are up to, and now you are threateneing
[16:49]<IKnights> I'm not threatening you!
[16:49]<Kimmyeo> How exactly is this helping anything?
[16:49]<IKnights> I'm telling PB right now that she better not hurt RoFC
[16:49]<Kimmyeo> She better leave Neptune alone
[16:49]<Kimmyeo> NOW
[16:50]<IKnights> Kimmy. I'm talking to her.
[16:54]<Kimmyeo> well
[16:54]<IKnights> Kimmyeo, I'm being serious. Is this all about Neptune?
[16:54]<IKnights> I told Neptune that I wanted him to stay in RoFC, and it could be paid over time.
[16:54]<IKnights> I even said I might never even get paid back.
[16:55]<Kimmyeo> HE's not paying it, he left RoFC
[16:55]<Kimmyeo> You didn't say that
[16:55]<Kimmyeo> You said you'll be gracious and give him one more chance....
[16:55]<IKnights> Yes I did, I'll send a screenshot
[16:56]<IKnights> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333584218305200128/346336089000378370/unknown.png
[16:57]<IKnights> What HE did, was leave the alliance, and basically said that he refused to pay or be in RoFC, I'll forward you the mails he sent ME
[16:58]<IKnights> 1) Who collected the votes for this trial 2) Could you send me a copy of exactly what proposition 35 was?
[16:59]<IKnights> Screen Shot 2017-08-13 at 11.52.25 AM
[17:00]<IKnights> One sec, need to upload that first XD
[17:00]<IKnights> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333584218305200128/346337085462020097/unknown.png
[17:00]<IKnights> There
[17:01]<Kimmyeo> The trial was issued and you were supposed to show up, YOU NEVER CAME. Therefore the entire leadership, YOUR leadership, decided what you had to do. You were going to be newbie ringed, this was a chance for you to stay in RoFC and slowly pay back over time. Ligitimate?! You think it's "legitimate" that I have to pay out of my own pocket for members that do foolish acts like you?! I've been trying my best to protect TWO ALLIANCES from war left and right basically ALL ON MY OWN. You can complain and whine all you like, it means NOTHING. As far as for legitimate? War. All is fair in love and war. It is your debt. And I will see to it that it is collected. I will be gracious. I will give you ONE last chance. You can come back into RoFC, then over time, you can pay your share of the gold. For you that would be 50m a month. Only take you 10 months to pay back. There are going to be future contracts and wars that will get you FAR more than that. It's either that, or I will be forced to come after you. I am not losing 1 billion gold because you want to try to say you're innocent and that you have every right to not pay. You don't have any right except to either stay and pay, or not stay and get much more taken from you. Which will it be? The easy way, or the costly way? Either way I get paid, so it doesn't matter what you pick to me. ~IKnights
[17:03]<Kimmyeo> Still no agreement that we will pay back.Where are all the screen shots of me don't do it?
[17:04]<Kimmyeo> These emails I have are all I need to show you are threatening us.
[17:04]<Kimmyeo> ALL ON YOUR OWN, really? You really believe that?
[17:06]<IKnights> I meant from being attacked! I've been working day and night trying to keep players from attacking you. Some of RoFC seems to be begging to be attacked!
[17:06]<Kimmyeo> Do you think I haven't spoken with anyone?
[17:07]<IKnights> No! You're a good player! Of course you talked with people I presumed!
[17:08]<Kimmyeo> I spoke with He-Man and others that have He-mans ear...He didn't stop because of what you said or say you did, which we all know is another scam...
[17:09]<Kimmyeo> I am tired of the lies, and scams and fake shiit
[17:09]<IKnights> Kimmyeo. I've been trying, PH!L has been trying, so have a few other players
[17:09]<Kimmyeo> Trying what?
[17:09]<IKnights> Trying to keep the peace
[17:10]<Kimmyeo> How do I know you're even IKnight? Ha!
[17:10]<IKnights> Ok, how shall I prove it?
[17:10]<Kimmyeo> you don't have to do anything but keep your mouth shut, and we will have peace
[17:10]<IKnights> Excuse me?
[17:10]<Kimmyeo> IT's done
[17:11]<Kimmyeo> You don't have to do anything, sorry that came out bad
[17:11]<Kimmyeo> I am sorry
[17:12]<IKnights> How do you think I feel? I pay 1 billion gold, been working my best to help, I have all of GC trying to attack me, and then this?
[17:13]<Kimmyeo> When will see you shouldn't have paid out of the goodness of your heart and then expect it paid back? There was no agreement
[17:13]<IKnights> Kimmy. There was.
[17:13]<IKnights> You agreed
[17:14]<Kimmyeo> no, there wasn't.
[17:14]<Kimmyeo> I cannot agree, we would have had to vote on it. You were moving too fast. I was saying not to pay it
[17:14]<Kimmyeo> do not pay it
[17:14]<Kimmyeo> stop
[17:15]<Kimmyeo> you insisted
[17:15]<IKnights> Yes, you did. But you also said that if they won't pay, the alliance will. But I ALSO said that I might not ever see it again.
[17:15]<Kimmyeo> that is all out of context
[17:15]<IKnights> You're taking what I said out of context
[17:15]<Kimmyeo> well, lets just drop it then
[17:18]<Kimmyeo> Deal?
[17:18]<IKnights> Am I still allowed to come to RoFC?
[17:18]<Kimmyeo> Is it a deal?
[17:20]<Kimmyeo> If there is no deal, how can you come to join us?
[17:22]<Kimmyeo> I'll take that as a no
[17:23]<IKnights> Kimmy, here's the problem. Hobblez is mad at Neptune.
[17:23]<Kimmyeo> Hobblez is done with Neptune
[17:23]<Kimmyeo> Neptune is done with Hobblez
[17:24]<IKnights> That's not true
[17:24]<Kimmyeo> it is true
[17:24]<Kimmyeo> since yesterday
[17:24]<IKnights> No, I have IGM from Hobblez
[17:24]<Kimmyeo> let me see it
[17:24]<IKnights> k
[17:32]<Kimmyeo> did you find it?
[17:32]<IKnights> Sorry, had a bunch of PCs to answer, trying to get it
[17:32]<IKnights> I have like 7 PCs up
[17:33]<Kimmyeo> I have yours.
[17:40]<IKnights> Got it
[17:40]<IKnights> Forwarded it
[17:42]<Kimmyeo> Date: 13 Aug 2017 04:31 hobblez [12:27 AM] Him and 2 others in RoFC sieged a city on my alt when it was 1 month old (it had 3 cities total) as part of their beef with Rijk/Ozrik. I was prepping for the upcoming war at the time so Goldy told me to let it go. Once the war was over I came back after them an put a bailout amount on each of them totaling 1 billion gold. IKnights stepped in and bailed them out on the condition that he would get the gold back from them or I'd roll my sieges at them again. Neptune is still butt hurt about the whole situation....I don't think IKnights will ever get that gold back....and PB now wants to kill Neptune over it....I told PB that if they join as part of this "conflict" then I'm out, don't want Neptune have a reason to bitch and moan even more about getting ganged up on.....
[17:43]<IKnights> Exactly.
[17:43]<Kimmyeo> The above is after what you sent...
[17:43]<IKnights> Look, I am not "forgetting" 1 billion gold.
[17:43]<IKnights> That was far too much work
[17:44]<IKnights> If you want to make this an alliance matter, you can. You can even get all of RoFC to pay me back. 1 billion gold is just too much to lose.
[17:44]<Kimmyeo> okay then, we could have just saved a whole lot of time if you just admitted that to begin with.
[17:44]<IKnights> I do NOT want to come off as a threat, but I NEED my gold back
[17:45]<IKnights> I'm serious, I needed that gold for other things, and I'm going to get in trouble for it.
[17:45]<Kimmyeo> They way you were bragging this morning about 12 billion, I don't see it that wa...
[17:45]<IKnights> ITEMS
[17:45]<Kimmyeo> SELL THEM
[17:45]<IKnights> And that wasn't me
[17:45]<IKnights> That was for the whole alliance
[17:45]<Kimmyeo> That wasn't you in GC thi morning?
[17:45]<Kimmyeo> please
[17:46]<IKnights> Not the in GC thing
[17:46]<IKnights> I mean that the whole payment wasn't for me alone
[17:46]<IKnights> It for for ALL the MoV members that helped.
[17:48]<IKnights> Neptune was ungrateful.
[17:48]<Kimmyeo> Neptune said no!
[17:48]<Kimmyeo> That's not ungrateful, that is him not wanting you to pay for him
[17:49]<Kimmyeo> no contract
[17:49]<IKnights> Leaving RoFC, ungrateful
[17:50]<Kimmyeo> He was right, we couldn't protect him
[17:50]<Kimmyeo> or support him enough
[17:50]<IKnights> Why are you defending him and not me? So everything you said about how much I was giving up by paying 1 billion, about how YOU even said the alliance must pay me back? Means nothing?
[17:51]<Kimmyeo> That is all out of context. If it had been handled better. It was not handled at all. You did it without any votes, concensus, etc.
[17:51]<IKnights> I had votes
[17:51]<Kimmyeo> you and Eoawn
[17:51]<Kimmyeo> right?
[17:51]<IKnights> More
[17:51]<Kimmyeo> not from RoFC
[17:53]<IKnights> PH!L, YOU!
[17:53]<IKnights> WulfHere
[17:53]<Kimmyeo> Ph!l is not in RoFC. It was RoFC matter, and I didn't vote, I wasn't there
[17:53]<IKnights> Yes you were
[17:53]<Kimmyeo> Wulfhere didn't vote
[17:53]<Kimmyeo> at this supposed trial?
[17:53]<IKnights> Yes he did, he said no
[17:53]<Kimmyeo> no
[17:54]<Kimmyeo> ARGH, there was not trial.
[17:54]<Kimmyeo> no*
[17:54]<IKnights> Your vote was "I don't like it and I don't think you should pay for us." and "If IKnights pays, even the ALLIANCE will pay"
[17:54]<Kimmyeo> prop 35 failed. meaning no charges
[17:54]<Kimmyeo> no trial
[17:54]<Kimmyeo> done
[17:54]<IKnights> Forward prop 35 to me then
[17:54]<IKnights> I'd love to see it
[17:55]<Kimmyeo> why, you obviously didn't need it
[17:55]<IKnights> You obviously don't have it
[17:55]<Kimmyeo> I did cut andpast it on Discord that day , talking with Eowan
[17:55]<Kimmyeo> you have it
[17:55]<IKnights> Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but 1 billion gold is 1 billion gold
[17:55]<Kimmyeo> I told y ou not to give it away
[17:56]<IKnights> Yes, but you also said that if the members involved don't pay, then the allianc emust
[17:56]<Kimmyeo> All I can say at this point is do what you gotta do
[17:57]<Kimmyeo> NONE OF IT HAPPENED
[17:57]<IKnights> That conflict resolution chat WAS THE TRIAL!
[17:57]<Kimmyeo> no
[17:57]<IKnights> YES!
[17:58]<IKnights> You know what? I don't think you understand. I paid 1 billion gold
[17:58]<IKnights> And this is how I'm being treated?
[17:58]<IKnights> Being told to shut up?
[17:58]<IKnights> Being told that IDragon is not welcome in RoFC?
[17:58]<IKnights> Being told that I have to forget about it?
[17:59]<IKnights> Pardon me for being upset
 I know that many players may say he edited that, but there's way too much evidence. And there just seemed to be more and more.
[01:15]<S.S.C.L.> Wow. She flat out lied.
[01:17]<IKnights> Yep
[01:19]<IKnights> Next thing I knew, Kimmyeo was doing everything she could to make sure I wouldn't get paid. Irony is, apparently even Hobblez needed that gold to pay off debts.
[01:19]<IKnights> She even talked with Hobblez on it.
[01:20]<S.S.C.L.> Can I see it?
[01:20]<IKnights> Sending

[01:21]<S.S.C.L.> Wow
[01:22]<IKnights> Yep
[01:23]<S.S.C.L.> Well, I assume there's much more?
[01:24]<IKnights> A little, yes.
[01:25]<S.S.C.L.> Ok.
[01:26]<IKnights> I decided to send a mail to ALL of RoFC, one by one, took me a bit of time, but worth it.
[01:26]<IKnights> Only one I didn't send to was Kimmyeo, no point in telling her.
[01:27]<S.S.C.L.> You went ahead and forwarded it to me.
[01:28]<IKnights> Yep  

[01:28]<IKnights> After that, I think Kimmyeo was kicked, but she now claims she left, either way, she's back in now.
[01:29]<IKnights> She was furious. I noted the Illyriad Times got some of it, but they left a good bit out and made my answers go to different questions.
[01:31]<S.S.C.L.> Well, at least they made it where it was quite obvious in the end with the screenshot.
[01:31]<IKnights> Yeah, so I don't mind.
[01:32]<IKnights> But she did offer 1,200 prestige, and for some reason, Stukahh seems to be taking her side in this.
[01:33]<IKnights> He told me he was going to raze 07 Mul lies here, and if I sent any attacks against it, all of SIN would burn MoV to the ground.
[01:35]<S.S.C.L.> Wow. That sounds messed up.
[01:35]<IKnights> It is, but it's just a game. I won't fight back, I won't fight Kimmyeo, but no matter what, I'm going after my gold.
[01:35]<IKnights> I will not be cheated.
[01:36]<IKnights> I actually got a mail from the founder of RoFC
[01:36]<IKnights> Saying clearly I have the right to go after them
[01:36]<S.S.C.L.> May I see that too?
[01:37]<IKnights> Sure

[01:39]<S.S.C.L.> Well, you do have the given right now.
[01:39]<IKnights> I'll be going after Neptune first.
[01:40]<S.S.C.L.> Well, is there anything else?
[01:41]<IKnights> Well, aside from Kimmyeo being a troll about it in GC, not really.
[01:41]<IKnights> I've tried proving it, but it seems like it won't work.
[01:43]<S.S.C.L.> Well, I'm glad to know the full story. I'm sure your name will be cleared soon.
[01:45]<IKnights> Thanks, part of me wants to fight fire with fire and offer to pay money for prestige too, but to be honest? That's rediculous and just sad. She has no actual military force, I could beat her on my own.
[01:45]<IKnights> Maybe I should offer a duel, just me and her
[01:45]<S.S.C.L.> Well, your call. Just need her to accept.
[01:46]<IKnights> Don't think she would. That's why she put her alt in loki.
[01:47]<IKnights> She actually HATED the SINdicate until this.
[01:47]<IKnights> She's only there to kiss up to Stukahh for coming after me. He is a great war player and all, but she truly ONLY likes him now because of it. She told me many times that she thought he was stuck up on himself.
[01:47]<S.S.C.L.> Do you know who her alt is?
[01:49]<IKnights> I think it's Yazzash. Sources tell me her alt was in eCrow, that's the only account there that was in eCrow and matches up with the timeframe.
[01:49]<IKnights> I could be wrong
[01:51]<S.S.C.L.> Well, it's been great talking with you. I'm sure things will change very soon. Think I could have a permanent link to the Discord? I'd like to show it to some friends and see what they think.
[01:51]<IKnights> I'll keep hoping. Here you go, I'll let whoever uses that link have access to see the channel if they just ask. https://discord.gg/ucM6WWh
[01:51]<IKnights> A pleasure to meet you and talk to you as well.

     Well, I expected to hear either more of a little bit of both story, but as it turns out, IKnights was telling the truth. Kimmyeo really did lie. And she should not be believed whatsoever. All the proof shows this. I suggest using the link to see the trial for yourself, but again, that is only a tiny piece of the puzzle. I am proud to have figured it all out and not just parts of it.

     Until the next unraveling, this gothic girl has some Metallica to listen to.

     Salem's_Secret Coven Leader.